After all, you could be wrong. As I have stated, I do try to be sensitive and let people vent. Much of what I am reading here involves debating or defining what Calvin wrote, etc. The writers did claim to believe much the same, though, even that church and state should work together with the church ruling and the state enforcing church rule. No one likes to see (what they think is) a good doctrine maligned, especially if it leaves the real culprit at large. Calvinism is merely the attempt by one man to interpret the Bible; there are scores of others, men and women, who have attempted the same. Yet why do I still love Jesus, the Bible and read so many Christian authors? Hes describing man, not God. But its brought up a lot, so what am I supposed to do? There is something that has been horribly misinterpreted in the verse about All things work together for good..etc It has almost created a cult of catastrophe. I used try but I have given up. And those who have been left behind when theyve fallen in between, On the altar of the simple road is the blood of the messy gray I just ordered the book! It is used to define gender roles, the age of the earth, eschatology, and election. I am not saying that Calvinists are going to hell or anything radical like that. If you think I should be sensitive and hold my tongue at times, then I agree. That means you should be able to find other believers who view the faith as you do. Eventually I became a Christian during an episode of Star Trek while reading a LifeMagazine article about "The Groovy Christians of Rye, New York." Learning as we go, making mistakes but so what, & learning from them. Thus, just when you think youve got them pinned with the logical plumb line, they slip deftly away with a declaration of noyou dont understand; I dont BELIEVE that. Its all up to God. I had no intention of saying that non Calvinists read the scriptures to suit their own fancy. I intended to contrast believers (Cal and non-Cal) who base their opinions on their reading of Scripture, and believers (Cal and non-Cal) who base their opinions on their own counsel, on what they *feel* is true. Theres nothing wrong with pondering and wondering at the truths Jesus represents. Sproul Steve Lawson Voddie Bachham Wayne Grudem People Guilty Of Greatly Spreading The False "Free Will" Gospel: Bill Bright Billy Graham Charles Finney But, as Ilook back, I am gratified bythe number of friends who have stayed the course through the years. Plus I had never heard of tongues). And its not because we cant or are unwilling (as in errant school children who just need some tutoring) to accept, Gods ways to be different from ours.. Going to church in the north during those days was different. I think I would rather not go the route of trying to figure things out in that way; it leads to some very painful things. @wartwatch Not even the milk toast "We regret if anyone was offended"? CALVIN! Id like to comment on one: Accept that Calvinists find peace in trusting that God has orchestrated even the specific tragedies in life. Your next sentence is They do not understand why this brings others great pain.. If you read it, you will most likely have a heart attack. So if you say oh yes, bringing God glory is the sole reason for mankind without ever pushing back like you did, elastigirl, their tacit assumption is that you have just conceded the soundness of their doctrine. It was you! Written by Daniel Isaiah Joseph in Charts. I could not get past the point of believing that God had ordained my abuse until I discovered there was another way of putting the jigsaw together. Hence, your free will is categorically subject to Gods absolute control (meaning, God allowing is functionally the exact same thing as Him not allowing; anything that happens happens as a direct function of his will, either via that positive (allowing) or the negative (not allowing)in either case, your free will is utterly under Gods sovereign control. @dee, I have a very low tolerance for that kind of thing. And the reason I identify that way is not because I want to convert people, but because I just didnt like all the hatred spewed out at the belief system. An infant does not want, nor desire steak. And, yes, there is much more to Calvinism than TULIP, though the two are thought of as interchangeable. I read CS Lewis, Francis Schaeffer and many others. Ive tried to suss out how a good, all powerful God can exist at the same time as evil, and I just dont have an answer. Pushing Calvin on a hurting individual is like pushing steak on an infant. It stopped making sense when God began to show me in many profound ways that He loves me. I guess Im not explaining myself very well here, because all this is not to say I think theology is a bad thing. John Calvin, French Jean Calvin or Jean Cauvin, (born July 10, 1509, Noyon, Picardy, Francedied May 27, 1564, Geneva, Switzerland), theologian and ecclesiastical statesman. The 5 pillars of calvinism are not found in these creeds. Where we end, he begins. My experience with this cult gave me a starting point to question my need for God in my life and showed me how to trust God rather than blindly follow a man-led cult. Along with the traditional stuff, I have the definitive collectio of Star Trek ornaments including the Borg Cube which says (when turned on) We are the Borg. 1) That article. Do you share these thoughts? We bumped into a former leaderfrom Ed's church at Bent Tree. Maybe Im wrong on that. I just checked my Google News and there was an Associated Press story marking 20 years since Al Mohler took over SBTS. Pg 75 who needs systems & neat little boxes? @ Darcyjo:I wish I could hear you preach. I really dont dwell on that because it is so difficult. C.K. This can apply to spiritual things, to living life with God, Jesus, Holy Spirit. Heal their parents broken hearts and lives? Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Lutheranism all come to mind off the top of my head. I gotta second numos motion. No one is trying to convince him otherwise. Brings to mind the documentary This Emotional Life I saw on PBS. Im pretty sure that Calvin doesnt either, but Ill check on it. I did not but I definitely got the immigrant part and am proud of m Russian heritage. My bet would be that some (many?) Im very glad that I can call you a sister in our Lord and a friend.. Ive seen only the first 15 minutes so far, and what he says makes sense to me: Is God the AUTHOR OF SIN? HERE AHURA-MAZDA, THERE AHRIMAN!. I have a couple key thoughts (key to me anyway) which have taken form as I have extricated myself from reformed theology over the past year: 1. (an extremely brief synopsis:) At the Spiritual Sounding Board blog, in the threads about Calvinism, I saw Cals on occasion contradicting each other. But, if, during an online conversation about Calvinism, someone writes that the discussion is disturbing to him/her, certain questions arise beyond the obvious point that its wrong to attack that person: Should the conversation be halted? TWW received a comment from one of our nice Calvinist readers. So this is a goal for myself, as my family is growing up and I am finding a bit more time. And no, I did not. And I pretty much agree with everything you say here. And our needs are met by taking ground and accomplishing; because we were robbed of our inheritance and starved of purpose and significance. I want people to love God and love their neighbors. If the person makes the comment because he/she believes its important that others should know that there are people who can be hurt by that conversation in real life, how should that affect the online discussion? If I were there when a Calvinist or any other professing believer (or atheist or whatever) told someone who was suffering or grieving something that was sure to make the person feel worse, I can practically guarantee that I would shut that person up and have words with him/her. My theologys still up-in-the-air, and I dont care if it never comes down. And I kind of doubt youre on call to give your Testimony in church; it just doesnt jibe with the Conventional Christianese Testimony. And with a similar base assumption as Islam would resemble Islam as time goes on and Entropy sets in the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. In between cleaning out my car and doing other various jobs around the house, it came to me. There is a reason there has been a debate for centuries. That is what total and depravity mean these days, after all. A Word to My Calvinist Friends. But disagreeing with someone is not the same thing. His notable works, such as The Courage to Be and the three-volume Systematic Theology, has inspired intellectual thinkers and commoners alike. Thanks for posting it. As well as giving off a strong aroma of the No True Scotsman fallacy. It is only partly totally contaminated with leaven. This might be where Romans 8:28 comes in, or the story of Joseph in the Old Testament. I DO think that Calvinism is misconstrued a lot by people in this position, but either way its not a good time or place to try and correct them. It is very easy to proof text Calvin to prove any point you want to make about what he believed or didnt believe. Editors Note: The list is not meant to be exhaustive and will be updated periodically. Your voice is missing! 21st-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians Eastern Orthodox [ edit] 12th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 13th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 14th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 15th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 16th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians 17th-century Eastern Orthodox theologians In spite of the fact that Sproul and Piper have said such things, i still consider them Christians. Recently, I had a Calvinist who knowns me say that i was not a Christian by very fact that I write this blog and call out some of the people that he admires. Oy. He was the leading French Protestant reformer and the most important figure in the second generation of the Protestant Reformation. I do think though, there is a difference between a Calvinist and a Calvinista. 1550-1616), who was not. It was like the only choices I had were to swear allegiance to Calvin or give up my beliefs that align with what he taught about grace. is far removed from anything I, or any other Calvinist I know, believes. And when you [Calvinists whom he is addressing] quote Charles Spurgeons words equating Calvinism and the gospel (a place where I believe the great Spurgeon got it wrong), you are not saying that those of us who do not subscribe to all the points of Calvinism fail to believe the gospel. But maybe there is just too much pain and hurt for that to be possible.
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